Kato Rosza April 12

Kato Rosza Telephone Interview
April 12, 1998

THE BREUERS of Újfehértó

MIKLOS: I don't know so much because I was young. He was a nice boy. He was 18, 20 years old living in a small town. It was really difficult. He couldn't get a job in the small town. We had someone, a big man, who liked very much my great grandfather and he sent your grandfather to Budapest. And he got him a job in Budapest and that's why he went to Budapest and that's why I went to Budapest. There was nothing to do in that small town. He got married to your (grandmother). I lived there for about 15 years. I was younger. Miklos had a very nice job. Not a big big job. He was bookkeeper for a big company and he was very nice to me as they just had a 2 room apartment. That's why I'm so close to Agi and George because I minded them. I was about 16 or 17 years old. I know them. I lived with them I don't know how many years. It was very good with my brother and my sister-in-law. He was a very nice man. In 1942 they took him away. He was sick. I lived with them after I was married. George was 2 years old when I was married. Agi was 12 years old. ... I just talked to Djuri...Djuri was in the small town. ...What else can I say about your grandfather. He was a good man. He loved his family. He loved his wife so much. He was so happy when Djuri was born, the boy I was there when Agi was born. I was there when Djuri was born. It was a one bedroom apartment. I was living in the living room. 2...3...bedrooms. I was .... we had a good relationsihp with your grandmother and grandfather and the kids. How many times Agi called me to say "I love you Kato" And Djuri too. Because I was like a mother. I lived together a long time with your grandfather. We never had a fight.

LASZLO: Lotsi was a very good boy. He was a communist. He was a friend of the gentleman [Peter Gabor?] who was your great-grand father Ferenc's friend who got Miklos a job. He wasn't a communist, but he was on the left. Lotsi didn't have a diploma, but he was like a lawyer. He helped people. He took care of poor people. If they had to go to court, he'd go with them. He was in love with a cousin, a girl who married someone else. I'm not sure why he never got married. I never lived with him. I lived in Budapest for the last 20 years and he lived in Újfehértó with my parents. I heard a story, [that since] he was a communist, the people said he went to Russia. They killed him there. He was a kind man who wanted to help everybody. A sick man. He had asthma. He was very sick when I was home. He coughed at night.. He didn't want to wake up people so he walked outside, he didn't want to bother anyone. He just wanted to help people.

ERNO: Erno was a different kind of person. He went away very young. He was married when he was maybe 20 years old. We didn't know the girl who he was going to be married to. I remember they sent a paper to your grandfather to sign. But he doesn't.... Elivra was often staying with my parents. She spent more time than Agi. Her parents were sometimes together sometimes not together. He left Budapest. He brought girls from Italy to the hotels or motels. He was a good boy, but he ran away too young. In our [time], a 20 year old boy, if he's not married he stays at his parents place. That is a job not for my parents. He [Ferenc?] didn't like it that he [Erno?] did that kind of thing. He was different [than the other sons]. He was good man. He didn't hurt anyone. But my father didn't like what he did.

SANDOR: He was the first to return from the camps. We saw him in Budapest in 1944. He said his wife was dead. He didn't know she was alive. He was surprised when his wife came back. But they knew where took him. Because he had a taxi...he had a car. He ... with Hungarian soldiers. And he knew Auschwitz. He knew. And still he was in the ghetto. Because I was in Budapest. I just heard about it. By I had a maid who took care of my baby. So when they took the family to the camp or ghetto, I sent her there. I sent with the girl who worked for me blankets, chocolate, everything. We knew where he was. They sent a car for the girl who was there. I don't know who the soldiers were. She was a good looking girl. He let her in...and she talked to my brother. Sanyi liked girls. After the war when he came back. Because in Budapest, Lotsi [Laszlo], I told you he was a communist, not really but that type. There was a big in big man in Hungary, Peter Gabor. That was Lotsi's best friend. They were working together. He was a big man in Budapest. He was the first man in Hungary. He [Sandor] went there and he got a big I thought he was a [c]. ... like a best friend. so when Sanyi came back....he was a .... man in Budapest. He got a wonderful job. He was a big man after. ... 40,000 people were working for him. He was a big man. After, he quit the job, When I came to Canada, he moved from Budapest. He was in Ujfeherto, long after the war. He lived in [our] parents house. And at that time Ferika [Frank] was born. Sanyi was Ferika's father. He was a regular nice boy.

ERNO (again): Even Erno was nice boy, but I don't know why he left the family. He left at an early age and he went to the big city. I don't know why. He was different. He wanted to be....I don't know...But he was already...but we don't know [when] he married. But still my mother loved him.

ON PICTURES: When I came back from the Ghetto, I was in Budapest at the other [Spanish safe?] house in the war time. Jew people were living in my apartment and when I came back I couldn't find anything. That's why I don't have any pictures. My daughter was 3 or 4 months old. I went to the [safe] house with a carriage, that's how much I carried with me. That's all. I didn't have room to take the pictures. I left everything in my apartment. And Jewish people were living there. It was empty empty! One day your mother [Agi] came to me, Kato, hurry put the gold somewhere. Agi came with me. We went to the basement. [We had a] kilo of gold. Agi said "come on Kato lets put the gold somewhere." We went to the basement. You know there was a different basement like a small [pad?]. And we made a big hole in the basement and we put the jewelry there. And we never found it when we came back. They took it all away. Even [though] Jewish people lived in that house. They took away everything. Everything. Not even a picture. Not even a dress. Nothing when I came back. That's why I don't have a picture of Lotsi. What a good looking guy he was. What pictures I have I got from Elvira in Israel.

ERZEBET: She was beautiful and a nice girl. She went with a gentile boy in Ujfeherto when she was young...and her parents were angry. We were not rich, it was very hard to marry. So, at that time, I was in Budapest. At my young age, I was 16 or 18, I wasn't in the small town, I was in Budapest, but Boske was in Ujfeherto. She had a boyfriend, but she didn't have money [dowry]. Our parents couldn't give her lots of money so she wasn't married. Judka-neni went to Spain. She wrote a letter to my parents. He could take me to Spain because there a was a very nice boy there and he wanted to get married. But I was going with a man. I was going with my [future] husband at that time. And he said I didn't have to anywhere. That I [should] stay here and marry me. And at that time, Boskika went to Spain. I was engaged and he [my fiance] didn't want me to go. [That's] how she went to Spain and married a man. Judka-neni brought her there. Everyone one left the parents. Only Sanyi and his wife stayed in the small town. Otherwise everybody went away. We were poor, not poor poor. but if I didn't have money, I couldn't marry.

KATALIN KENDAL: I knew everyone in Ujfeherto. My grandmother.[was] Katalin. You see how many Katalin's there are [in our family tree?].. She died a year before I was born. Because Jewish people like to name after the grandparents. I don't know how many Kati BREUERs there were. At this age, like my uncles and aunties, I knew everyone.. Katalin Kandel must have died around 1910 because I was born in 1911. Sure I knew [that grandmother died in 1910]. As long as I lived in Ujfeherto, no one died [in my family]. Everybody were all alive [until] they were taken away.

MALI GRUNBAUM: My mother was a kind, kind lady. She never yelled or screamed. She never went out shopping. My father did everything. When Djuri [George] was born, maybe she came out to Budapest, the grandfather. But when she wanted to see Agi or Djuri she couldn't. It cost money. You know they take a train. But my mother came to Budapest only for very special occasions. My wedding was in Budapest. She came for my wedding and when Agi was born and when Djuri was born. She was a fine lady, lovely lady. She was happy, but she wasn't a laughing person. She was smiling. If you felt bad, she touched you. She never hit the kids. You know in those days, the parents hit the kids. Not that my father was a bad man. But she was a princess.

FERENC BREUER: My father was a strong man, not a bad father,.but he was a strong man. He kept his distance from you. He kept 3 steps far away. We had to kiss his hand. He was a very strong man. Different than my mother. I was surprised. She was a fine lady. She was a lady and he was a strong man.

MIKLOS (again): Your grandfather was not feeling good so he went to a sanatorium. He was there 5 months and then they let him out. Your grandmother was working at home. When he came back from the sanatorium. He brought a book, he wrote everything. He said "Now we will make a factory". At that time I was there. And they made a big lingerie factory. And it was very good Ladies lingerie. He had lost his job as he Jewish. And after, grandma was all right, Agi was all right. They had everything. They had a maid.

Adolf Breuer in Tiszapolgar, every year I went there for a few weeks. A little town. He had a store.. They sold kitchen utensils. He had a little beard and no children. His wife was Lina. There were no children. I went there every year for holiday. He was a very nice man. Probably died in 1944. I don't remember. It was another city.

BREUER Ignatz: [He was in] Ujfeherto. You know Imre [Banyai]. That was his grandfather. He was a nice man. He had a store [that sold] kitchen things. He was all right. And he had 2 sons: Jozsef & Dezso. Imre's father and his brother. They lived not too far from each other. I remember. I remember everybody. I knew everybody

Regina BREUER's husband was Ignatz KATZ. They was two sons: Erno and Bundi. One not married. The son named Erno, he had two or three children. [...] His daughter was Ilona KATZ. She married a first cousin. GRUNBERGER. There is a Hani GRUNGERBER. GRUNBERGER Sandor married KATZ Ilona.

BREUER Isador lived in Tokaj. I was there almost every summer. You know the beach queen. I was a queen there. KATZ BREUER Isador. The name is Ilona, daughter. Bela, you know they came, he was the one that came back from Auschwitz on the way home because he was bad. KATZ BREUER Isador. He had 3 children and Bela was a lawyer. That was the story. I am not sure. They were in Auschwitz [he was] bad to the other Jewish people. That's what they are talking about. Isador's son Bela. I'm not sure, they said they killed him because he was bad to the other Jewish people. [Bela died in Auschwitz.] I heard a story. He had 2 daughters. Ilona & Rozi. Rozi was my age. But they married. I don't know the married name. The other one was Jutka-neni's age. [...] Every summer we lived in the country where it was beautiful like Balaton. And.I was a queen on the beach. I think the children were born in Tokaj, [Ilona?] and Bela. Youngest, Rozi's husband I think survived [the camps]. He came one time to Budapest after the war. He came to my house to tell me his wife won't come back. He came to me 2 or 3 times after the war in Budapest. I think his name was Josef. I think he had a beautiful child. After he married I didn't meet him [again]. I'm sure he had a child.

Fani BREUER GRUNBERGER: Like in the GRUNBERGER, they had GRUNBERGER Kati, my age. She was named Katalin after the grandmother as the mother was BREUER Fani. She married GRUNBERGER Janos [sic Jakob? ]. They had 6 children. Lacsi, Bela, Erno, Sanyi...Kati was the youngest who had a little girl. The husband was Janos (husband of Fani BREUER - John GRUNBERGER - or JAKAB).

BREUER Samuel with daughters Kati & Eva. She was the youngest. Younger than me. I think someone is still alive: Kati or Eva. They live in Debrecen. Kati is younger than I am and Eva is younger than Kati. But Ferika knows this. (The other Kati lives in New York. The daughter of Bernat lives in New York. But she is younger.) Debrecen is a small town not far from Ujfeherto. One is alive. I don't know, Kati or the other one.

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Kato Rosza Telephone Interview
May 31, 1998

The GRUNBAUM Family

I think my mother was younger than Herman GRUNBAUM. I remember one family. It was my father's parents. Don't remember Jacob [GRUNBAUM] well. I remember his wife. Ignatz was in Russia in the first war. The oldest son of Roza. I remember came back years and years after from Russia. Ignatz, Kati Klein, Kati Grunberger and me were very good friends with him. He was in Russia for years. The family thought he was dead. But he came back. He married after. His wife's name was Klara Goldman(?) [sic Gelbman] It's possible he couldn't come back [earlier]. That was the first war. He was an old man, much older than we were. But I remember we were very good friends. I remember me and the other Kati. And there was Boriska, Maria, and another girl(?), there were 3 girls, Natzi's sister[s] and Leona[?], the oldest. [Natzi] the brother. He was younger.

Ignatz GRUNBAUM had a wife named Berta. And they had 3 sons. [4 sons: Sandor, Josef, Ferenc and Janos].. The oldest son [Sandor] married in Budapest the richest girl. She has one daughter still alive. ...in Ujfeherto. When they took away the father and the mother, a gentile family hid her. And she is still alive. Maybe Feri knows about it. Sandor [was the oldest]. He was a bank manager in Ujfeherto. He was the older son. He married into a first class family, a very rich girl. They were not with the Jewish people. They were gentile people. That's why they saved the life of the daughter. The daughter was Jewish. She was Jewish and he was Jewish, but the gentiles, when they took her away, that's what I heard, I wasn't home in Ujfeherto, but the people told me after. Sandor's wife was Aronvics Berta. Ask Ferika. Maybe he knows more about it. The whole city says that pretty girl is alive because the gentile people saved her life. I think the daughter stayed in Ujfeherto. Josef, the other boy [son], had children. The third boy was Frank(?). I know his wife's name was Elisabeth. And they had children. I don't know how many. That was in Budapest. They came, he was in Russia too. When I came to Canada in 1948, he was not in Hungary. The family didn't know. A year or two after I came to Canada, I got a letter from Feri Grunbaum and he asked me for some money. When I came to Canada. He was nice. And he told me he came back from Russia. He told me he came back from Russia after years and years. [He said] I'd never write that letter if I didn't need some money. When he came back from Russia to Budapest [...]. Before the war, married a girl named a girl from Gyongyos, her name was Elizabeth. Everyone thought he was dead. When I came back to Canada in 1948. Everyone was back already. I got a letter from him. He was alive. He came back. Sandor didn't survive. [Josef and Janos died in the Holocaust.] Josef lived in Budapest. I don't know [about] Janos. Josef and Sandor were in the same camp, Ferika's father told me [Sandor Breuer]. Jewish people can't marry if the mother and the wife have the same name. We don't count in Ujfeherto the regular name, only the Jewish name. Sandor's mother was Berta and his wife was Berta. I remember that for sure. Ferika's father Sanyi [Breuer] told me [Sandor & Josef Grunbaum were in the same camp.] They told me they were fighting for a piece of bread, the two brothers who were such good brothers. [Incidentally], he told me what type of life they had. The oldest one had gold teeth. They pulled out the teeth someone and gave it to somebody for a piece of bread. He [Sanyi] told me those kinds of stories when he came back. He [Sandor G?] was a very nice man. ...job they had. He was a president...Ujfeherto is a small town in the only bank that was there. And Josef was in Budapest, his whole family, he was a big man too. And Feri had a movie plaza. And after he married Junjuska. She was in my wedding. I remember. Joseph a business in Budapest. I remember. He was a [executive]. I was at his house in Budapest many times. He had a boy, but I don't know his name [the boy died in the Holocaust]. Feri had a movie theatre in Budapest. I was there every Sunday afternoon. I don't remember what Janos did. He was the same age as ..., I left Ujfeherto to Budapest when I was 18. He must have been in school at that time. After, I don't know.

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When he [George S.] calls me he remembers something, what happened, how my parents saved me. Right away when he brought him back from Ujfeherto, he doesn't go home...to his mother's, he came to my place. He was a year old, he was 6, 7 [months?]. He was in my house. And we saved him. Sure, you know what, .he was ready to go to Auschwitz with my parents. My father put his coat on him full with money. Because he didn't know where he would go. They put a ring in on his coat full of money. He came to Budapest to my house. He told me told me, Kato, thisi s not my money, grandfather put the money in the coat. They didn't know what would happen. [Ferenc] hoped that someone would save him. And it happened. He knows that somebody saved him. [Q. where your parents taken to Auschwitz] Yes, I have a friend here from Ujfeherto who came back. A woman...the right side....she went to the other [side]. [Because they took the older people away.] She is 70 years old that woman. I am very good friends with her. I didn't know her before.